Comments on: Fact versus “Fictoid” in the Age of Cable http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/ Informed reflection on the events of the day Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.4.23 By: Truth Defeats Truthiness: Election 2012 « Jeffrey C. Goldfarb's Deliberately Considered http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-26127 Sat, 17 Nov 2012 00:07:45 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-26127 […] basing our political life on factual truths, (as I analyzed here) instead of convenient fictions (fictoids), and on careful principled (of the left and the right) judgments and not the magical ideological […]

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By: DC Week in Review: Political Imagination, the Definition of the Situation, and Fictoids « Jeffrey C. Goldfarb's Deliberately Considered http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-13179 Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:38:47 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-13179 […] is what our concern about fictoids is all about. Political actors imagine a reality. Sarah Palin makes up the notion of death panels […]

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By: Maureen http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-3035 Fri, 17 Dec 2010 22:06:29 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-3035 The Value of Fake News – The Daily Show: Stewart’s political satire in the form of “fake news” on his show is a compelling antidote to the distortions and the fictoids, and has fundamental value in a thinking society. It’s compelling because it reveals the incongruities in the fictoids, makes us laugh (a lot) so it appeals to our senses and intellect, and ultimately gets us to the truth behind the deceptions and controlled messages. And, regardless of one’s party affiliation or ideology, Stewart really spares no one. Everyone has an equal opportunity to get on his radar screen, and that also brings real value to a thinking society.

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By: Eric M. Friedman http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-1999 Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:14:27 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-1999 I am encouraged by seeing that the concept introduced in The Politics of Small Things, namely “living in truth,” has salience throughout this blog entry.

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By: Iris http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-1951 Mon, 15 Nov 2010 22:04:16 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-1951 I believe that Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are entertainers, not politicians, but they are political satirists, and they address serious issues of the day. Whatever the intent of the sponsors, the meaning of the rally was in the eye of the beholder, and the attendees could very well feel that they were making a political statement. “Truthiness,” which is a favorite word of the character Stephen Colbert plays on his show, is related to what Jeff is calling “fictoids,” a statement of truth that is not based on fact, or fact distorted beyond recognition of truth, “death panels,” etc. Jon Stewart in his interview with Rachel Maddow ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/11/rachel-maddow-jon-stewart-interview_n_782538.html ) says that both sides of the political aisle are guilty of this, but maintains that most of his ire is directed at the most egregious perpetrators who are found on the right and promoted and amplified by Fox News. I don’t believe Stewart and Colbert are engaged in “truthiness” as Anezka Sebek is saying, but rather are calling out those who are. They do this in funny ways, but often make you want to cry. I think that the people who went to the rally, or sympathized with it, did so to make a statement against the right-wing rallies of late, and also to have some fun and maintain their sanity in the present outrageous political atmosphere.

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By: Anezka Sebek http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-1923 Sun, 14 Nov 2010 14:05:49 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-1923 I like your analysis of the “fictoid, and as you were, I was seriously disappointed at the albeit expected outcome of the ensuing election. I agree that Jon and Steven did not use the rally as politicians would have but they are not politicians:they are well-paid figureheads of television, a commercial enterprise that thrives on sponsorship by both sides of the political coin. They have to talk a line of pablum that entertains. The rally was good old American entertainment. Nothing more. I actually see Jon and Steven as “truthiness sayers”. The truthiness is just that–an entertaining way to tell the truth. Can truth be entertaining?

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By: Jeffrey C. Goldfarb http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-1881 Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:31:35 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-1881 I want to underscore that I think the close relationship between news and entertainment generally poses a problem. Distinguishing between fact and fiction becomes difficult, but not impossible, maintaining dignity as a political leader is harder (as is revealed by the clip Jae brings to our attention). Expert analysis can help, as Michael suggests, but given that experts don’t always agree and the populist suspicion of elites, the help is limited. This is a struggle for public opinion and public appearance of those who can tell the difference between fact and fiction. Bringing this to the attention of the public is very important. Thus, I think it is an important public project to do this, which I think the Rally to Restore Sanity/Fear was about in amusing ways. Perhaps there is, though, a danger that we could amuse ourselves to death as fictoid machine of Beck and company chugs along.

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By: Michael Corey http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-1852 Thu, 11 Nov 2010 20:41:51 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-1852 I really like the “fictoid” suggestion. It might help take some of the noise out of what is broadcast and discussed. Political speak is full of “fictoids.” As Jeff points out, many “fictoids” are perceived as facts, and as the Thomas Theorem implies,” If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.” Expose “fictoids” for what they are, and there will be different consequences.

How do we expose “fictoids?”

Frequently, “fictoids” seem credible because they are accepted and are taken for granted. In a minor part of Jeff’s example, Jeff references the Beck and Stewart/Colbert rally attendance estimates. CBS used an “expert” to challenge the accepted wisdom broadcast on other networks, most of which were based upon informal, off the record guesstimates by the National Parks Service. It is possible to research the expert’s methodology (AirPhotosLive.com, I believe), and make a judgment about it. Informal estimates don’t have this transparency, yet the repeated reference to them contributes to their credibility. Photographs of each event are available for anyone who wants to investigate them, but it is difficult for casual observers to analyze them. If a court hearing was held, dueling “experts” would probably be presented to contest the other side’s findings. Vetting “fictoids” can be a time consuming process.

The “expert” as a concept can be analyzed as a social type to use Simmel’s terminology. Part of what defines an “expert” is a belief that an “expert” has something special that distinguishes them from most other people. It usually involves claims about special training, skills, knowledge, and experience. If we go beyond these characteristics, it is possible to understand what goes into the making of an “expert”; help explain their influence; understand other aspects of their interactions; and the credential making and maintenance process. “Experts” are expected to suspend their preconceptions and biases, and offer opinions, based upon an objective analysis of a situation. An irony is that “experts” frequently disagree with one another. This makes it more difficult to form conclusions. The situation is made more complex in that “expert” advice is frequently part of a commercial arrangement.

A relatively modern challenge for the “expert” is transparency made by making situations public which frequently happens as large numbers of people contribute to discourse through the new media. While there is a lot of noise in the content of the new media, frequently, some insights are surfaced which have been overlooked by the “experts.”

I think what this suggests is the need to blend “expert” analysis with widely shared, analyzed and contested information. It is a messy process, but in the end, it should be possible to properly identify an assertion as either a fact or “fictoid.”

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By: Jae http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/2010/11/fact-versus-fictoid-in-the-age-of-cable/comment-page-1/#comment-1844 Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:15:44 +0000 http://www.deliberatelyconsidered.com/?p=850#comment-1844 Hi Jeff,
Great stuff.
It would be of interest to you, too: Obama on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart: Yes, we can but!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MgWbX5ENKk
It seems Obama was a serious politician in a comedy show where he should play a role of comedian not of a politician. (Think of Sarah Palin on SNL!) That’s why the audiences burst out laughing. Jon Stewart, on the other hand, became a political figure in a political rally while he’s playing a role of comedian! The rally and the Obama incident seem to show the intersection of politics and the entertainment industry as a media event and a new dynamic of American media politics (Yes, We Can too, said the Tea Party Movements!)

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